My wife and I went to see Sicko during our date night last weekend. I liked it, thought it had several good points, although I’ll admit that as a democrat I’m more inclined toward the Michael Moore polarized view of the world (we live in Seattle, after all). However, I don’t think I’m going out on a limb in saying that Moore’s films tend to over-simplify complex issues in portaying the “good guys” as saintly and the “bad guys” as pure evil, when in fact I think there are a lot more shades of gray and that even the people with whom we don’t agree aren’t likely to be kitten torturers.
I’ll say that I agree that the US system is definitely imperfect, to say the least. There’s too much emphasis on money, as we discussed in one recent thread on the forum section that got a lot of people involved. One of the reasons I started this site is that the reality is that giving chemo is reimbursed but answering questions and spending time with a patient and their family is not incentivized by the US system, so I wanted to have a place to remedy that shortfall of available information for patients and families. And then there’s the health care insurance companies: the fundamental issue is that there’s a very large industry in the US that serves as an intermediary between the money people spend on health care and what the providers receive for it. The incentive of the industry as a whole must be to authorize enough care to not violate our standards enough to have people leave for another company, but to shave enough between revenues and reimbursed expenditures to make a healthy profit. I wouldn’t say that they routinely deny my treatment recommendations, but there are many companies where treatments like avastin or tarceva are covered only very narrowly. Reviewing the forms they send, it reduces cancer treatment to a paint-by-numbers approach to health care.
The movie provides some very incendiary stories of medical directors at insurance companies being rewarded and pressured to deny care to patients as much as possible, in order to boost profitability. That may be the case, but fortunately, I must say that I don’t get major interference in my treatment plans for most of my patients unless it’s a red flag item like avastin or tarceva or a stem cell transplant. And speaking of bone marrow transplants, one of the key vignettes was about a man who was denied a stem cell transplant for advanced kidney cancer. The problem is that this is really pretty “out there” as a treatment, and it’s also incredibly expensive. It’s exactly the kind of thing an insurance company would likely resist covering. And the movie portrays the insurance company as being unreasonably inflexible and uncharitable in denying this approach. But my knowledge of this field leaves me with an understanding that this approach is so experimental and so expensive that it’s certainly not an automatic requirement that any insurance company provide it. Because the movie so oversimplifies this issue, it makes me skeptical about how clear-cut some other aspects of the movie are, such as whether most medical directors at insurance companies receive bonuses for denying claims. Or was the implication of that practice being widespread actually based on a very selective editing job?
The stem cell transplant issue also raised another problematic issue for me. Along with his being critical, in many ways appropriately, of the US health care system, Moore highlights the wonders of nationalized single-payer systems like Canada, the UK, and France, among others. The movie includes not only the impressive statistics about how much better other industrialized countries do in terms of life expectancy and infant mortality rates compared with the US (which is barely debatable anymore — the US can’t claim to have the best health care system), but it highlights the happy people who receive prompt and comprehensive health care in these nationalized systems. But there’s no way on earth that the Canadian (or NHS, or French) health care system is going to cover an early investigational stem cell transplant in kidney cancer. OncTalk members are writing about their struggles just to get tarceva, an agent that has been clearly shown in international trials to significantly improve survival in advanced NSCLC. Avastin is also much more readily available in the US than in most other parts of the world. I would say there’s no way these systems would even have a serious discussion about covering an investigational and extremely expensive approach like a stem cell transplant for solid tumors.
So we can’t have it both ways. In the US, we provide incredibly expensive care to a subset of the people, while leaving 50 million ununsured Americans. Our debates include whether anything should be denied to our insured patients, but in nationalized systems there is a recognition that broad coverage requires prioritization and some real limitations in what is covered. We can’t afford our health care system now, even without absorbing all of the underinsured and uninsured people. If we were to tackle universal health care, it would involve imposing more significant limitations in the care that is offered routinely, or we’d have to abandon paving our roads or having fewer than 40 kids in public school classrooms, or we’d at least have to accept a significant increase in our taxes. We can’t have it all without any limits.
And then there’s the question of whether the folks in Canada, the UK, France, and other countries where health care is nationalized are as happy with their systems as they appear to be in Sicko. The patients shown in the movie definitely appeared to have short waits and to be very pleased with their care. But from what I hear from people who have relied on the Canadian system or NHS in Britain, there are real problems that were glossed over in the movie.
So I’ll invite people to comment on the movie or their sense of what works and doesn’t work in the health care system they experience now. I’m especially interested in whether the single-payer systems in Canada, Europe, and elsewhere live up to their billing, and if not, what are the greatest shortcomings; for the folks from the US, how much does the financial side permeate health care, and what are people’s thoughts about providing unlimited care for some vs. more limited care for all? I don’t think we can dispute that there are major problems with the health care system in the US, but is there really a system that we can and should emulate, if we had the infinite power to change what we have in the US now?
posted by Dr. West @ 11:02 pm link to this post





July 31st, 2007 at 11:35 pm
Dr. West: I understand that, particularly with respect to surgery, which will also delay other potentially fruitful treatments. I also thought the surgeon at Johns Hopkins got off pretty easy in the article.
I guess the place where I may part company with you (and it may just be where each of us sits at the moment) is when you have someone who is in pretty bad shape (let’s say Performance Status of 3), who wants to try one more treatment (let’s say a chemo they haven’t had). Your considered opinion is that there’s less than a 5% chance of a response (which might increase survival by a few months on average) and that there’s a 20% chance that the treatment (an approved drug, though maybe not in that setting) will hasten the patient’s demise dramatically (with the other 75% split between no effect on survival but a decrease in quality of life, and maybe a small increase–in weeks–in survival with a decrease in quality of life from the treatment).
Your conclusion is that this is not the best treatment, the patient’s conclusion is that s/he wants to try it anyway–with eyes wide open. What do you do? And what ethical principle prevents you from allowing this to be the patient’s call–with you providing lots of advice and stating your opinion strongly?–Neil
July 31st, 2007 at 9:49 pm
Yeah, Neil, that was interesting. I was visiting friends in Washington, DC, looked at the front page of the Sunday NY TImes and thought, “hey, I think I know her”. I had helped take care of her once when my colleague was away from the office.
Yes, it’s pretty complex. It’s tough, because he certainly was a savior when he offered more hope than the last person, but when we can’t offer something amazing, you lose that status and may go from good guy to bad guy. In truth, the surgeon who did that surgery for the woman in the article left cancer behind after the surgery, which likely provided no benefit and plenty of adverse effects from a futile surgery. I don’t think that was highlighted. One point I take away is that there is almost always someone willing to do more for, or at least to a patient, but that may very well be detrimental.
I strive to offer the best treatment, but it’s not always the MOST treatment that is out there. For some patients, that isn’t the best match. To thine own self be true.
-Dr. West
July 28th, 2007 at 7:34 pm
From the New York Times online. It gets at a variety of the issues we’ve all talked about, and it features one of Dr. West’s colleagues as good guy/bad guy in a complex world.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/29/health/29Cancer.html?hp
July 25th, 2007 at 11:49 am
I just saw on the news Rhode Island Hospital nurses got a 4% pay increase this year and they are now the highest paid in R.I. there salary was 81K, not to shabby!
July 24th, 2007 at 10:57 pm
I’m also enjoying learning from so many different perspectives. I also share the view that lifestyle issues are central, that the US suffers from an excess of many things, but a shortage of physical activity. And here I’m part of the problem, one of the many Americans likely to add to the sad statistics for heart disease (I think it’s the bacon — is there anything that isn’t better with bacon added?).
I’m glad that with all of the different viewpoints, the debate is pretty friendly.
I’ll add that while docs in the US are overall well-paid, it does depend on what specialty you’re in. Pediatricians, internal medicine docs, and others who don’t have procedures like colonoscopies or surgeries to do (or chemo to give) have salaries that are on average fair but not especially high, particularly when you consider the costs of going to med school and the fact that you spend most of your 20s incurring debt while most other people are gainfully employed. I can tell you that oncologists in Canada are paid pretty darn well, better than the vast majority of university-based US oncologists, even if it’s less than what most private oncologists make. That dual US/Canadian citizenship is looking better and better, except for the part about living in the Arctic Circle and all (kidding!).
OK, I’m tired. I don’t think we’re going to solve the problems of our many health care systems tonight.
-JW
July 24th, 2007 at 8:16 pm
I think Welthy’s comments above about lifestyle point to a major factor. Beyond that, here’s to civility, and to Welthy!–Neil
July 24th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
As Americans, we are civilized enough to initiate discussion and often end up agreeing to disagree! (For Neil’s benefit LOL) I dearly love and respect all of my relatives and their respective positions, whether they be tree-hugging Sierra Club Liberals or Ultra-Conservative Right Wingers!
To me, that is the beauty of our country and our liberties. I just wish our Congress would get on the stick, do their jobs, and move beyond PAC groups and lobbyists that work against the good for all. I’m thinking that is something WE ALL can agree on!
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